These 1000 facts I would find really odd at TU Graz…

… if I came to study at TU Graz now.

0001    That the university asks students, who begin to study in March, to do the “Studieneingangs- und Orientierungsphase” first, although the courses are seemingly not offered in the so-called “Sommersemester”.

0010    That all too many students register for some course, but then do not actually visit the course nor plan to do an exam during the semester either.

0011    That so many students register for an exam, but when it comes to actually go there they shy away.

0100    That many courses come as separate pairs of “Vorlesung” and “Kontruktionsübung” with no requirement of formally linking the two.

0101    That there is no compulsory mentoring or counseling offered for non-performing students.

0110    That the annual 2 semesters together only have a duration of 30 weeks.

0111    That students complain about their high workload, but are not willing to participate in actually measuring it.

1000    That students are not required to finish their Bachelor studies before starting with the Master program.

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9 thoughts on “These 1000 facts I would find really odd at TU Graz…

  1. Flachzange

    Dear Mr. Posch,
    please allow me to add some of my thoughts to this 1000b facts:

    0001b: that’s a shame, but to be honest: I don’t know legal circumstances. Is it really the TU or is this the blame of the legal circumstances in Austria?

    0010b: I understand that this fact must be very odd for lecturers. I usually don’t register for a course I don’t want to attend in a semester, but sometimes it just happens that I’m needed in work or for consultance @ HTU. I think no one is really planning on “haha I register but I don’t wanna attend the course”, sometimes there are just circumstances (like really bad curricula or work) that won’t let students allow to visit a certain course.
    On the other hand: Is it really bad not to make an exam during the semester? I know it’s not clever to delay the exam, but i usually don’t do it on the first date after the lecture.

    0011b: Completely agree with that.

    0100b: this depends on the curriculum, isn’t it?

    0101b: how do you define “non-performing” students? How would you design such consultation?

    0110b: Well there’s only 30 weeks of lectures during the year, but as a student I have to work a lot more. Homeworks, learning for exams, working. Holidays are not “holidays” like in school or at work.

    0111b: sometimes it’s not complaining about the high workload, i often recognise in talks with other students that “high workload” also causes from the lack of modern communication or possibilities of attending lectures (e.g. moocs). Not every lecture is able to held via moocs, but there are many that are.

    1000b: I would do that, if there are really Bachelor- & Master-Plans and not a mixture of it. I think students should be able to learn and attend what they are interested in.

    Reply
  2. Majda

    I do not see a problem with 1000. Imagine a student who is in the 6th semester of their Bachelors: the student passes all exams except one “Konstruktionsübung”. Let’s say that particular course is offered only in summer semester: if starting with the Masters were not possible before finishing the Bachelors, the student would have to “sit through” the next winter semester, and attend only one course in the following summer semester. Wouldn’t that be a huge waste of time? This is why I think it makes sense to allow students to start with their masters before officially completing their Bachelors.

    Reply
  3. Peter

    ad1)
    Of course, this is a strange situation. Personally, I think that the total STEOP-System is bullshit. But if you are wondering, that there is no STEOP-LV at Sommersemester, why don’t you offer “Einführung in die Telematik”?

    ad2)
    This is because we want to find out, what is this course about. The description in TUGraz-online is mostly vacuous. So we visit the first two or three lectures. If it doesn’t fit our intellectual interests, we stop visiting the course. Mostly, the checkout-deadline is over. So we would not visit the course anymore and naturally won’t take the exam.

    ad3)
    Sry, I have no excuse for that 🙂

    ad4)
    Talk to the Studiendekan and Stuko-Members. Possibly they can change that with the next “Studienplanänderung”.

    ad5)
    nothing to say here

    ad6)
    When you were a student, you liked it. Didn’t you?

    ad7)
    Would you change something, if it comes out that the effort for one course is to high/low?

    ad8)
    Thank God!!!

    Reply
  4. Rene

    My thoughts on that:

    0001) Granted, life would be easier if those LVs would be offered during summer, but the situation is not as bad as people make it out to be. All STEOP classes I’ve seen are pretty easy to learn from home in about 1-2 weeks and exams are offered in summer (even though you might have to ask for it). And even if you don’t do the STEOP, it just means you’ll have to postpone some exams, which also isn’t the end of the world.

    0010) That’s a real pity, I agree. If this happens with classes that have a limited number of seats, the students should receive some kind of penalty..

    0011) Now that’s somewhat understandable. People usually register for exams a long time in advance. In the time leading up to the exam a lot can happen. You might find you’re not as prepared as you think you were, or you find that the subject is actually much harder than expected. Of course there is also the classic case of procrastinating and then noticing that it’s too late to catch up. While that’s certainly a “Charakterschwäche”, it’s by no means “odd”. A shame, yes, but not odd.

    0100) I see that as a positive thing. If I want to do a lecture from a different program (something that is not in my catalog) as a selective class, I may not have the time to do the exercises as well. Formally linking the two classes would severely reduce the options I have with selective courses.

    0101) That sounds great. At which universities do they have this?

    0110) Agreed. While I enjoy the “holidays” I also think there is way too much downtime.

    0111) Are we sure that those are the same people?

    Reply
  5. Flow

    My thoughts to this:

    0001) Bureaucracy…
    0010) I do that because I have far too many courses each semester. I register for all of them with the full intention to finish only ~70-80% of them. Most of the time you can say very little about how a course really is and you have to check it out. I try to not take someones seat, though.
    0011) If they don’t de-register until the deadline, I agree.
    0100) I agree.
    0101) This one is ridiculous.
    0110) I agree. The lecture-free time should be shorter. There’s a lot of work to do in very little time. There’s times where you have several practicals and only a few weeks for relatively time-expensive tasks. And then there’s times in which there’s nothing to do, except for some project or something.
    0111) I can only speak about myself, I’m just not that interested in time measures. Almost no one gives a shit about. The ects, in the way we use it, is more a vague system than a fair point distribution.
    1000) This one is also ridiculous. If a student with one or two missing courses could not start a master program, he would have to enroll some random undergrad courses he’s not interested in, because he needs the ects points for the studentship or child- or family-benefit. Because courses are not offered every semester a student would have to wait 2 semesters, if he misses a course from the 6th semester. Doesn’t that seem like a waste of time?

    Reply
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  7. 0xFF

    ad 1000: it surprises me that especially you of all people criticise this.. it surprises me greatly!
    i would have thought you would understand why no student wants to waste a precious year of university life (and resources and money) waiting for one or two courses he did not pass earlier at the first try… it makes much more sense not to get caught up too much in the Bachelor stage and to instead further one’s interests with interesting Master courses..

    Reply
    1. kcposch Post author

      I do not see a problem with starting with the Master program if we are only talking about “one or two courses” which one has not finished in his/her Bachelor program. I see a problem if a student hangs out in Master-level courses while not having finished a lot more from the Bachelor program. In our current teaching architecture, this seems to be quite often the case.

      Reply
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